Banned from Church
January 19, 2008

When I was in high school, I decided to start taking half-days my junior year, which evolved into full days off my senior year. No, my parents did not know about it, but they found out eventually and boy, was I in trouble! How did my Christian high school punish me? They suspended me from school! That’s showing me–I don’t want to go to school, so they retaliate by telling me I can’t come. It didn’t make a lot of sense.
Neither do some of the churches that the Wall Street Journal covers in the article, “Banned From Church” . The piece is all about how some conservative Protestant denominations have brought back the practice of church discipline, including excommunication. Speaker/author Dale Fincher first brought this article to my attention on his blog, so you can read his thoughts here.
There were some great stories in the article, that would have been laughable had they not been truth. The piece opens up with a 71 year-old lady getting hauled out of church by the police for trespassing (after the pastor called “911″ because you know this is a real emergency). Apparently, the little old lady had a big ol’ mouth and dared to speak out against the great and powerful pastor, so she was banned from the church she had attended for the past 50 years.
Here’s a quote from the article, “While many Christians find such practices outdated, pastors in large and small churches across the country are expelling members for offenses ranging from adultery and theft to gossiping, skipping service and criticizing church leaders.” This is where my lead-in story comes into play–you can get disciplined for skipping church. I mean, that’s a great excuse, “Hey, why didn’t you go to church today?” Answer: “Because last week the associate pastor was forced to call 911 when I showed up.” Gotta love church discipline that punishes people for skipping church by telling them they can’t go to church. I’m sure they start small and ban the sinners from potluck dinners first, then youth car washes, then small group, and finally from the Big Sunday Service itself.
Undoubtedly, the best quote from the article is this story about Lakeview Baptist Church in Alabama, “Once, when the congregation voted out an adulterer who refused to repent, an older woman was confused and thought the church had voted to send the man to hell.” Gee, the elderly can’t catch a break at these churches, can they?
I think adultery is sad, especially because it broke up my own family. But voting an adulterer out of church? Isn’t church one of the places this person could hear the truth? Obviously, God can work in people’s heart outside the walls of a building, but doesn’t this building exist to proclaim the gospel, to allow people to fellowship, to set the captives free?
The leaders of these churches point at Matthew 18 and say, “See, it’s right there!” Of course, if the congregants opened their Bibles to the book of Titus or a few of Paul’s letters (you know, the books that talk about the qualifications for elders, deacons, and pastors) and addressed the conduct of elders, the pastor, and other church authorities, they would be shunned before they could finish their first sentence.
Then there’s the problem of that rebel Jesus (thanks to Jackson Browne & Bebo Norman for that title). He liked to hang about with folks who had questionable moral character. Jesus even says so: “The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.” ‘ But wisdom is proved right by her actions” (Matt. 11:19).
Obviously, we need to find the ever touchy middle ground between turning our churches into temples of hypocrisy or crack houses. But that is why church leaders need to depend on the power and the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit (Uh-oh! I mentioned the Third Person of the Trinity…I’m going all Pentecostal now!). Perhaps the most ignored Person in the Church today is the Holy Spirit, who is to guide us in decisions and help us know what to do when the going gets tough. He’s in the Bible, too. Both testaments.
Legalism never led man to God, nor did the gospel of prosperity. Perhaps we should throw both away, stop calling 911 on little old ladies, and get over ourselves. The problem is not just the people in the pews, but the people who wouldn’t be caught dead in the pews.
Entry Filed under: Bible, Christianity, Church, Culture, God, Jesus, News, Rant, Strangeness. Tags: banned from church, bebo norman, dale fincher, holy spirit, jackson browne, outcast, poverty, rebel jesus, sinner, tax collectors, trinity, wall street journal, whores.
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1.
Tracy | January 19, 2008 at 5:53 am
Stuff like this blows my mind. Heck, I worked in churches for over 12 years … I know it happens all the time but, still …. it blows my mind. Where are the sinners supposed to go now that they’re not welcome in church? And, who’s going to explain to the churches that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God?
2.
Tracy | January 19, 2008 at 5:53 am
Stuff like this blows my mind. Heck, I worked in churches for over 12 years … I know it happens all the time but, still …. it blows my mind. Where are the sinners supposed to go now that they’re not welcome in church? And, who’s going to explain to the churches that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God?
3.
waddey | January 19, 2008 at 1:26 pm
There are some churches and some pastors who abuse church discipline but to dismiss it altogether is unbiblical. The Wall Street Journal’s piece was sensational and extreeme. Church discipline should be a part of every church. It is an accountability measure that God built into the design of the church. Revoking someone’s membership is the very last step and the last resort in a long heart wrenching discipline process. Discipline is only for church members who claim the name of Christ and remain unrepentant in thier sin. Discipline begins with a one on one confrontation and is always meant to bring a wayward member back into a right relationship with God and the church. It has been my own experience that step one, if done correctly, is enough. The problem with most churches and most pastors is that they do not have enough faith in God and His Word to practice church discipline. We have not confronted sin in our own pews and our own pulpits. The result is a weak watered down church that acts more like the world and less like Christ.
4.
waddey | January 19, 2008 at 1:26 pm
There are some churches and some pastors who abuse church discipline but to dismiss it altogether is unbiblical. The Wall Street Journal’s piece was sensational and extreeme. Church discipline should be a part of every church. It is an accountability measure that God built into the design of the church. Revoking someone’s membership is the very last step and the last resort in a long heart wrenching discipline process. Discipline is only for church members who claim the name of Christ and remain unrepentant in thier sin. Discipline begins with a one on one confrontation and is always meant to bring a wayward member back into a right relationship with God and the church. It has been my own experience that step one, if done correctly, is enough. The problem with most churches and most pastors is that they do not have enough faith in God and His Word to practice church discipline. We have not confronted sin in our own pews and our own pulpits. The result is a weak watered down church that acts more like the world and less like Christ.
5.
dale | January 19, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Amy, that woman who mistakenly thought they were voting the man to hell, also made me laugh. That’s too funny.
I liked your opening example of getting suspended for skipping school. That’s like telling the adulterer to keep committing adultery or the addict to keep drinking alcohol.
Several thoughts about the WSJ article: The WSJ chose, in many ways, extreme and exotic examples. It feeds an already anti-Christian bias. That kinda annoys me.
I thought it interesting that many of these churches were Baptist, in the Bible-belt, and often ‘independent.’ I’ve been on the receiving end of spiritual abuses from the same kind of groups. It’s ugly. And they teach you to read the Bible in such a way so that you can’t refute it with the Bible (cause you don’t learn how).
I do think there is a place for church discipline. I find it interesting that Matthew 18, one of THE key passages on the subject, says you try to reconcile yourself to that person. That doesn’t mean agree on non-essential matters, but it does mean mend the relationship with love. If they won’t reconcile, then you take two or more witnesses (and Jesus will be with you stamping his approval on that). If they still won’t reconcile, you take them to the assembly (often translated ‘church’). Note it doesn’t say take them to the pastor, to the elders, to the deacons, or to anyone else in perceived ‘authority.’ It seems the Body has the authority only to do such a thing. And that Body is led, not by a pastor, but by the Holy Spirit. I hope this part percolates in the minds of your readers in an age when the contemporary American church model is on sandy ground.
Thanks for linking to my blog, Amy, I appreciate it. And keep shining the light!!
6.
dale | January 19, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Amy, that woman who mistakenly thought they were voting the man to hell, also made me laugh. That’s too funny.
I liked your opening example of getting suspended for skipping school. That’s like telling the adulterer to keep committing adultery or the addict to keep drinking alcohol.
Several thoughts about the WSJ article: The WSJ chose, in many ways, extreme and exotic examples. It feeds an already anti-Christian bias. That kinda annoys me.
I thought it interesting that many of these churches were Baptist, in the Bible-belt, and often ‘independent.’ I’ve been on the receiving end of spiritual abuses from the same kind of groups. It’s ugly. And they teach you to read the Bible in such a way so that you can’t refute it with the Bible (cause you don’t learn how).
I do think there is a place for church discipline. I find it interesting that Matthew 18, one of THE key passages on the subject, says you try to reconcile yourself to that person. That doesn’t mean agree on non-essential matters, but it does mean mend the relationship with love. If they won’t reconcile, then you take two or more witnesses (and Jesus will be with you stamping his approval on that). If they still won’t reconcile, you take them to the assembly (often translated ‘church’). Note it doesn’t say take them to the pastor, to the elders, to the deacons, or to anyone else in perceived ‘authority.’ It seems the Body has the authority only to do such a thing. And that Body is led, not by a pastor, but by the Holy Spirit. I hope this part percolates in the minds of your readers in an age when the contemporary American church model is on sandy ground.
Thanks for linking to my blog, Amy, I appreciate it. And keep shining the light!!
7.
atypicalgirl | January 19, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Dale, you know I’ve got your blog on my feed.
Naturally, I agree with church discipline as well. My point is that EVERYONE points to Matthew 18, rarely execute the process biblically, and end up making the situation worse causing problems for the Church. Yes, these are extreme cases, but I saw the “Matthew 18″ principle played out in my young adult group with heart-breaking consequences. Plus, with young adults there’s a ton of gossip going on with the confronters BEFORE they go to their sinning friend.
Done properly, I believe that church discipline is a wonderful thing that can be used to restore people to right living with God. Sadly, I can count those instances on one hand. Yet the improper execution is rampant. In fact, we were taught about it once as young adults, so everyone started confronting everyone on everything! It was a horrible mess. The pastor ended up leaving and going into law (big surprise there). His incorrect teaching led to the downfall of that part of the church’s ministry, and hurt a lot of people.
Now the youth pastor was excellent at implementing discipline with difficult kids. He would allow the kids to come to youth group if they would meet with him weekly to talk about their issues. It worked and allow restorative measures to talk place. For a while, a teen may not be allowed to attend youth group, but he or she was still being looked after.
What of the confessing Christian caught in sin who still wishes to be a part of a body? Is there a place for even these? And how do we define unrepentant sin? The main problem I see is not allowing God through the divine power of the Holy Spirit to show us when to confront someone and what to do. When I do things by myself, I usually screw ‘em up (or have an extra measure of God’s grace). God lets me fall on my butt. However, as I see after His Will, things aren’t always peachy, but they tend to have an extra flair of grace.
8.
atypicalgirl | January 19, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Dale, you know I’ve got your blog on my feed.
Naturally, I agree with church discipline as well. My point is that EVERYONE points to Matthew 18, rarely execute the process biblically, and end up making the situation worse causing problems for the Church. Yes, these are extreme cases, but I saw the “Matthew 18″ principle played out in my young adult group with heart-breaking consequences. Plus, with young adults there’s a ton of gossip going on with the confronters BEFORE they go to their sinning friend.
Done properly, I believe that church discipline is a wonderful thing that can be used to restore people to right living with God. Sadly, I can count those instances on one hand. Yet the improper execution is rampant. In fact, we were taught about it once as young adults, so everyone started confronting everyone on everything! It was a horrible mess. The pastor ended up leaving and going into law (big surprise there). His incorrect teaching led to the downfall of that part of the church’s ministry, and hurt a lot of people.
Now the youth pastor was excellent at implementing discipline with difficult kids. He would allow the kids to come to youth group if they would meet with him weekly to talk about their issues. It worked and allow restorative measures to talk place. For a while, a teen may not be allowed to attend youth group, but he or she was still being looked after.
What of the confessing Christian caught in sin who still wishes to be a part of a body? Is there a place for even these? And how do we define unrepentant sin? The main problem I see is not allowing God through the divine power of the Holy Spirit to show us when to confront someone and what to do. When I do things by myself, I usually screw ‘em up (or have an extra measure of God’s grace). God lets me fall on my butt. However, as I see after His Will, things aren’t always peachy, but they tend to have an extra flair of grace.
9.
dannimoss | January 22, 2008 at 4:24 am
Hi there! I just found your blog tag surfing on wordpress.com and I’m really liking it.
I thought about blogging on this news story myself. The specific situation in that church referenced in the news article is one I’ve lived in myself – the hyper authoritarian “preacher is god” kind of fundamentalist church that used “church discipline” to get rid of those who have a brain and don’t blindly follow the leader. Church discipline is commonly mis-used as a weapon in the hands of little Christian dictators.
There is another side of the church discipline issue, too, however. I talk about this rather emotionally on my blog. Church discipline is under-used when it should be used. I spent 20 years in an abusive marriage in the church. I begged and begged my pastors to exercise the Mt. 18 process to hold my husband accountable and they wouldn’t.
The reason it matters is because when pastors let an abuser sit comfortably in the pew (even in an attempt to have a chance to “love him back to Christ”) it says to his victims that they don’t matter. And it affirms to the abuser that he is safe and his behavior is acceptable, even godly. My oldest son almost rejected God entirely because his “perfect Christian father” was physically and verbally abusive in the privacy of our home and the church protected the father and blamed and abandoned the son.
We can’t throw out the practice of church discipline entirely because some really twisted folks misuse it. Church leaders needs to learn how it is to be used Biblically, and use it appropriately.
I’m going to dig around some more on your site. I like! I’m studying to be a clinical psychologist myself, specifically to be able to help Christians in situations like mine when the church won’t step up to the plate.
– Danni
dannimoss.wordpress.com
10.
dannimoss | January 22, 2008 at 4:24 am
Hi there! I just found your blog tag surfing on wordpress.com and I’m really liking it.
I thought about blogging on this news story myself. The specific situation in that church referenced in the news article is one I’ve lived in myself – the hyper authoritarian “preacher is god” kind of fundamentalist church that used “church discipline” to get rid of those who have a brain and don’t blindly follow the leader. Church discipline is commonly mis-used as a weapon in the hands of little Christian dictators.
There is another side of the church discipline issue, too, however. I talk about this rather emotionally on my blog. Church discipline is under-used when it should be used. I spent 20 years in an abusive marriage in the church. I begged and begged my pastors to exercise the Mt. 18 process to hold my husband accountable and they wouldn’t.
The reason it matters is because when pastors let an abuser sit comfortably in the pew (even in an attempt to have a chance to “love him back to Christ”) it says to his victims that they don’t matter. And it affirms to the abuser that he is safe and his behavior is acceptable, even godly. My oldest son almost rejected God entirely because his “perfect Christian father” was physically and verbally abusive in the privacy of our home and the church protected the father and blamed and abandoned the son.
We can’t throw out the practice of church discipline entirely because some really twisted folks misuse it. Church leaders needs to learn how it is to be used Biblically, and use it appropriately.
I’m going to dig around some more on your site. I like! I’m studying to be a clinical psychologist myself, specifically to be able to help Christians in situations like mine when the church won’t step up to the plate.
– Danni
dannimoss.wordpress.com